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China Considered with Elizabeth Economy is a Hoover Institution podcast series that features in-depth conversations with leading political figures, scholars, and activists from around the world. The series explores the ideas, events, and forces shaping China’s future and its global relationships, offering high-level expertise, clear-eyed analysis, and valuable insights to demystify China’s evolving dynamics and what they may mean for ordinary citizens and key decision makers across societies, governments, and the private sector.
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Dr. Elizabeth Economy sits down with Matthew Turpin to discuss his road to becoming a China specialist, the US government’s strategy to compete with China, the role of China and the United States in international institutions, and the likelihood of a deal between President Trump and President Xi over the next four years. Turpin describes how his path led him from a European History major at West Point, to Indo-Pacific Command and eventually to working on China strategy at the Pentagon and White House. The two experts discuss how US policy towards China has evolved, with Turpin illustrating how the goals of multiple Presidential administrations to help the Chinese economy develop were at odds with the increasing risk the PRC and Xi Jinping posed to American security. Economy and Turpin then shift to discussing the present-day dynamics between the two Great Powers; discussing the role of allies, whether international institutions are effective and still serve American interests, and how a new era in US-Russia relations may affect the relationship between the United States and China.
Recorded on March 12, 2025.
ABOUT THE SPEAKERS
Matthew Turpin is a visiting fellow at the Hoover Institution, specializing in US policy towards the People’s Republic of China, economic statecraft, and technology innovation. He is also a senior advisor at Palantir Technologies.
From 2018 to 2019, Turpin served as the US National Security Council’s Director for China and the Senior Advisor on China to the Secretary of Commerce. In those roles, he managed the interagency effort to develop and implement US Government policies on the People’s Republic of China.
Before entering the White House, Turpin served over 22 years in the US Army in a variety of combat units in the United States, Europe, and the Middle East and as an assistant professor of history at the United States Military Academy at West Point. He retired from the Army in 2017. From 2013 to 2017, he served as an advisor in the People’s Republic of China to the Chairman and Vice Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff in the Pentagon and was assigned to assist the Deputy Secretary of Defense with the Defense Innovation Initiative, a program to examine the implications of great power competition on the Department of Defense and the role of innovation in US defense policy.
Elizabeth Economy is the Hargrove Senior Fellow and co-director of the Program on the US, China, and the World at the Hoover Institution. From 2021-2023, she took leave from Hoover to serve as the senior advisor for China to the US secretary of commerce. Before joining Hoover, she was the C.V. Starr Senior Fellow and director, Asia Studies at the Council on Foreign Relations. She is the author of four books on China, including most recently The World According to China (Polity, 2021), and the co-editor of two volumes. She serves on the boards of the National Endowment for Democracy and the National Committee on US-China Relations. She is a member of the Aspen Strategy Group and Council on Foreign Relations and serves as a book reviewer for Foreign Affairs.
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ABOUT THE SERIES
China Considered with Elizabeth Economy is a Hoover Institution podcast series that features in-depth conversations with leading political figures, scholars, and activists from around the world. The series explores the ideas, events, and forces shaping China’s future and its global relationships, offering high-level expertise, clear-eyed analysis, and valuable insights to demystify China’s evolving dynamics and what they may mean for ordinary citizens and key decision makers across societies, governments, and the private sector.
Thursday Mar 13, 2025
Thursday Mar 13, 2025
Dr. Elizabeth Economy sits down with NED’s Christopher Walker to discuss the importance of democratic systems, how they benefit a given country’s citizens, and the challenges democracy faces in a new era. Walker argues that political rights often lead to economic prosperity and while China is one of the few countries where that does not apply, he states that China’s fastest period of economic growth came during a period of liberalization. Walker and Econony discuss the threat China poses in seeking to spread its repressive political system abroad, touching on the PRC censorship abroad, and the country’s desire to reshape international institutions and shape the information and idea realm globally. The two conclude by touching on the importance of continuing to support free and prosperous democracies despite the many challenges being faced.
Recorded on February 20, 2025.
ABOUT THE SPEAKERS
Christopher Walker is Vice President for Studies and Analysis at the National Endowment for Democracy, an independent, nonprofit, grant-making foundation supporting freedom around the world. Walker oversees the multidimensional department that is responsible for NED’s analytical and thought leadership efforts, which pursues its goals through several interrelated initiatives: the leading edge work of the International Forum for Democratic Studies, which uses an interdisciplinary approach to map and explore critical themes relating to democratic development, including in the modern information and emerging technology spheres; the Journal of Democracy, the world’s leading publication on the theory and practice of democracy; the Reagan-Fascell fellowship program for international democracy activists, media professionals, and scholars; and the Center for International Media Assistance that is dedicated to improving efforts to promote independent media in emerging democracies and developing economies around the world.
Prior to joining the NED, Walker was Vice President for Strategy and Analysis at Freedom House. Walker has testified before legislative committees in the U.S. and abroad, appears frequently in the media, and frequently conducts briefings on critical issues relating to democratic development. He has been at the forefront of the thought leadership on modern authoritarian influence on open political systems, including through the exertion of sharp power, a concept he and his colleagues developed.
Elizabeth Economy is the Hargrove Senior Fellow and co-director of the Program on the US, China, and the World at the Hoover Institution. From 2021-2023, she took leave from Hoover to serve as the senior advisor for China to the US secretary of commerce. Before joining Hoover, she was the C.V. Starr Senior Fellow and director, Asia Studies at the Council on Foreign Relations. She is the author of four books on China, including most recently The World According to China (Polity, 2021), and the co-editor of two volumes. She serves on the boards of the National Endowment for Democracy and the National Committee on U.S.-China Relations. She is a member of the Aspen Strategy Group and Council on Foreign Relations and serves as a book reviewer for Foreign Affairs.
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- China Beige Book on X: Christopher Walker
- Leland Miller on LinkedIn: Christopher Walker
ABOUT THE SERIES
China Considered with Elizabeth Economy is a Hoover Institution podcast series that features in-depth conversations with leading political figures, scholars, and activists from around the world. The series explores the ideas, events, and forces shaping China’s future and its global relationships, offering high-level expertise, clear-eyed analysis, and valuable insights to demystify China’s evolving dynamics and what they may mean for ordinary citizens and key decision makers across societies, governments, and the private sector.
Thursday Feb 27, 2025
Thursday Feb 27, 2025
In a wide-ranging conversation, Dr. Elizabeth Economy and Leland Miller talk about his experiences running China Beige Book, his insights on the Chinese economy, and conclude with a discussion about the Trump Administration’s trade policy.
Miller discusses the early skepticism surrounding the China Beige Book and the process of transforming it into a valuable tool that gathers data from across the Chinese economy while serving as an independent “check” to the Chinese government. He provides insight into the methodology used, from conducting thousands of surveys within China, to looking at labor, manufacturing, and market data which altogether provide a unique view of the Chinese economy and at times, run against the consensus. The two then transition to a conversation on the Trump Administration, having a nuanced discussion on how tariffs and a reshaping of US trade policy affect both the domestic and global economy.
Recorded on February 12, 2025.
ABOUT THE SPEAKERS
Leland Miller is the co-founder and CEO of China Beige Book. Before co-founding China Beige Book in 2010, Leland was a capital markets attorney based out of New York and Hong Kong and worked on the deal team at a major investment bank. He holds a law degree from the University of Virginia School of Law, where he was Hardy C. Dillard fellow and editor-in-chief of the International Law Journal; a master’s degree in Chinese History from Oxford University; a BA in European History from Washington & Lee University; and a graduate Chinese language fellowship from Tunghai University (Taiwan). A noted authority on China’s economy and financial system, he is a frequent commentator on media outlets such as CNBC, Bloomberg TV, CNN, and FOX Business, and he has served as guest host of two of the financial world’s top morning news shows, CNBC Squawk Box and Bloomberg Surveillance. His work is featured regularly in the Wall Street Journal, New York Times, Financial Times, Washington Post and many others.
Elizabeth Economy is the Hargrove Senior Fellow and co-director of the Program on the US, China, and the World at the Hoover Institution. From 2021-2023, she took leave from Hoover to serve as the senior advisor for China to the US secretary of commerce. Before joining Hoover, she was the C.V. Starr Senior Fellow and director, Asia Studies at the Council on Foreign Relations. She is the author of four books on China, including most recently The World According to China (Polity, 2021), and the co-editor of two volumes. She serves on the boards of the National Endowment for Democracy and the National Committee on U.S.-China Relations. She is a member of the Aspen Strategy Group and Council on Foreign Relations and serves as a book reviewer for Foreign Affairs.
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- China Beige Book on X: China Beige Book
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ABOUT THE SERIES
China Considered with Elizabeth Economy is a Hoover Institution podcast series that features in-depth conversations with leading political figures, scholars, and activists from around the world. The series explores the ideas, events, and forces shaping China’s future and its global relationships, offering high-level expertise, clear-eyed analysis, and valuable insights to demystify China’s evolving dynamics and what they may mean for ordinary citizens and key decision makers across societies, governments, and the private sector.
Wednesday Feb 12, 2025
Wednesday Feb 12, 2025
In a broad and insightful conversation, Dr. Elizabeth Economy and Dr. Adam Segal discuss the impact of China’s DeepSeek breakthrough, the cyber challenge China poses to the United States, international norms around cyber warfare and how the US can best respond.
Segal provides insight into the “typhoon” cyber attacks from Chinese malign actors, illustrating how China is seeking to embed itself in critical American infrastructure. The two then discuss the tools the US can best use to respond; from more severe sanctions to increased disruption against foreign hackers. And while China poses the most critical cyber threat, Segal also warns of other malign actors, such as Russia and Iran, that seek to undermine the cybersecurity of the United States and their allies. Lastly, the two conclude by discussing Segal’s involvement in leading the United States’ International Cyberspace and Digital Policy Strategy during the Biden administration.
Recorded on January 29, 2025.
ABOUT THE SPEAKERS
Adam Segal is the Ira A. Lipman chair in emerging technologies and national security and director of the Digital and Cyberspace Policy program at the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR). An expert on security issues, technology development, and Chinese domestic and foreign policy, Segal was the project director for the CFR-sponsored Independent Task Force reports Confronting Reality in Cyberspace, Innovation and National Security, Defending an Open, Global, Secure, and Resilient Internet, and Chinese Military Power..
From April 2023 to June 2024, Segal was a senior advisor in the State Department's Bureau of Cyberspace and Digital Policy, where he led the development of the United States International Cyberspace and Digital Policy. Before coming to CFR, Segal was an arms control analyst for the China Project at the Union of Concerned Scientists. There, he wrote about missile defense, nuclear weapons, and Asian security issues. He has been a visiting scholar at the Hoover Institution at Stanford University, the Massachusetts Institute of Technology's Center for International Studies, the Shanghai Academy of Social Sciences, and Tsinghua University in Beijing. He has taught at Vassar College and Columbia University.
Elizabeth Economy is the Hargrove Senior Fellow and co-director of the Program on the US, China, and the World at the Hoover Institution. From 2021-2023, she took leave from Hoover to serve as the senior advisor for China to the US secretary of commerce. Before joining Hoover, she was the C.V. Starr Senior Fellow and director, Asia Studies at the Council on Foreign Relations. She is the author of four books on China, including most recently The World According to China (Polity, 2021), and the co-editor of two volumes. She serves on the boards of the National Endowment for Democracy and the National Committee on U.S.-China Relations. She is a member of the Aspen Strategy Group and Council on Foreign Relations and serves as a book reviewer for Foreign Affairs.
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- Adam Segal on LinkedIn: Adam Segal
ABOUT THE SERIES
China Considered with Elizabeth Economy is a Hoover Institution podcast series that features in-depth conversations with leading political figures, scholars, and activists from around the world. The series explores the ideas, events, and forces shaping China’s future and its global relationships, offering high-level expertise, clear-eyed analysis, and valuable insights to demystify China’s evolving dynamics and what they may mean for ordinary citizens and key decision makers across societies, governments, and the private sector.
Thursday Jan 30, 2025
Thursday Jan 30, 2025
In a wide-ranging conversation, Dr. Elizabeth Economy and Professor Diana Fu talk about activism and protest in China, how this has changed under the regime of Xi Jinping along with Fu’s upcoming book on how China governs its global diaspora.
The two scholars discuss how a civil society that was allowed to exist during Hu Jintao’s rule has slowly been decimated in the 12 years Xi has been in power as the central government in Beijing has taken more and more control. Economy and Fu analyze the increase in repression over the last decade, from over 150,000 protests in 2010 to there now being minimal space for dissent; even on issues that have little to do with the government, such as the #metoo movement. Lastly, Fu concludes by touching on her current book project which looks at how the CCP monitors the Chinese diaspora abroad.
Recorded on January 22, 2029.
ABOUT THE SPEAKERS
Diana Fu is an associate professor of political science at The University of Toronto and director of the East Asia Seminar Series at the Asian Institute, Munk School of Global Affairs and Public Policy. She is a non-resident fellow at Brookings and a public intellectuals fellow at the National Committee on US-China Relations. She is also a member of the Royal Society of Canada’s College of New Scholars, Artists, and Scientists.
She is the author of the award-winning book “Mobilizing Without the Masses: Control and Contention in China” (2018, Cambridge University Press and Columbia Weatherhead Series). Based on political ethnography inside labor organizations, it uncovers how China’s migrant workers organized for rights without protesting en masse. It received best book awards from the American Political Science Association Association, the American Sociological Association, and the International Studies Association.
Elizabeth Economy is the Hargrove Senior Fellow and co-director of the Program on the US, China, and the World at the Hoover Institution. From 2021-2023, she took leave from Hoover to serve as the senior advisor for China to the US secretary of commerce. Before joining Hoover, she was the C.V. Starr Senior Fellow and director, Asia Studies at the Council on Foreign Relations. She is the author of four books on China, including most recently The World According to China (Polity, 2021), and the co-editor of two volumes. She serves on the boards of the National Endowment for Democracy and the National Committee on U.S.-China Relations. She is a member of the Aspen Strategy Group and Council on Foreign Relations and serves as a book reviewer for Foreign Affairs.
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ABOUT THE SERIES
China Considered with Elizabeth Economy is a Hoover Institution podcast series that features in-depth conversations with leading political figures, scholars, and activists from around the world. The series explores the ideas, events, and forces shaping China’s future and its global relationships, offering high-level expertise, clear-eyed analysis, and valuable insights to demystify China’s evolving dynamics and what they may mean for ordinary citizens and key decision makers across societies, governments, and the private sector.
Thursday Jan 09, 2025
Thursday Jan 09, 2025
In a wide-ranging conversation, Dr. Elizabeth Economy and Dr. Melanie Hart discuss China’s economic coercion, its impact globally, and how the United States can most effectively respond. Hart draws on cases from her time at the State Department to illustrate how her team successfully combatted Chinese efforts to use the power of their market to force political alignment by other countries. She also stresses, however, that this is an ongoing battle.
Hart also describes the Biden administration's framework for reducing dependence on Chinese critical minerals and semiconductors. She underscores the importance of investing in domestic manufacturing, partnering with other countries to build alternatives to Chinese suppliers, and working with allies to coordinate effective policy and early warning systems to address supply chain issues before they occur.
ABOUT THE SPEAKERS
Dr. Melanie Hart is the senior director of the Atlantic Council’s Global China Hub. She leads the Hub’s efforts to analyze Beijing’s actions and their global impacts using rigorous analysis and innovative data to generate actionable policy solutions, enabling the United States and its allies to respond effectively to common policy challenges on China. Prior joining the Council, Hart worked at the US Department of State, where she served as senior advisor for China in the Office of the Undersecretary for Economic Growth, Energy, and the Environment. In that role, Hart was instrumental in crafting strategies to reduce nation-state vulnerabilities to Chinese pressure. She developed the Department of State’s playbook for responding to Chinese economic coercion and led an internal unit that provided coercion-response support to multiple nations. Before joining the State Department, Hart served as senior fellow and director for China policy at the Center for American Progress, where her work helped shape domestic and global approaches to China on issues such as 5G policy, economic competition, energy and climate policy, and global governance.
Elizabeth Economy is the Hargrove Senior Fellow and co-director of the Program on the US, China, and the World at the Hoover Institution. From 2021-2023, she took leave from Hoover to serve as the senior advisor for China to the US secretary of commerce. Before joining Hoover, she was the C.V. Starr Senior Fellow and director, Asia Studies at the Council on Foreign Relations. She is the author of four books on China, including most recently The World According to China (Polity, 2021), and the co-editor of two volumes. She serves on the boards of the National Endowment for Democracy and the National Committee on U.S.-China Relations. She is a member of the Aspen Strategy Group and Council on Foreign Relations and serves as a book reviewer for Foreign Affairs.
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- Melanie Hart on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/melanie-hart
ABOUT THE SERIES
China Considered with Elizabeth Economy is a Hoover Institution podcast series that features in-depth conversations with leading political figures, scholars, and activists from around the world. The series explores the ideas, events, and forces shaping China’s future and its global relationships, offering high-level expertise, clear-eyed analysis, and valuable insights to demystify China’s evolving dynamics and what they may mean for ordinary citizens and key decision makers across societies, governments, and the private sector.
Tuesday Dec 17, 2024
Tuesday Dec 17, 2024
Host Elizabeth Economy sits down with Jimmy Goodrich to discuss the technology competition between the United States and China. Goodrich argues that the competition is far from settled with leadership in many emerging technologies still up for grabs.
He describes China’s model as one defined by state-led investment in key sectors, tremendous depth in their ability to innovate, and leading the race in advanced technology and patents. He also outlines China’s long-term ambition to dominate the next wave of advanced technology such as high-energy physics and quantum computing. But he cautions that a weak private sector and venture capital landscape, as well as constraints on access to foreign technology, pose real limitations in some areas.
The United States, in contrast, is led by a dynamic private sector with a strong startup ecosystem, and world-class universities. It is also viewed as possessing more advanced capabilities in the current generation of technology. Goodrich concludes that whichever nation can better attract the top talent, create the best companies to diffuse AI into their economy, and effectively integrate AI into the military will shape the world we live in for generations to come.
Recorded on December 2nd, 2024.
ABOUT THE SPEAKERS
Jimmy Goodrich is a leading expert on technology, geopolitics, and national security with a focus on China and East Asia. He is a senior advisor for technology analysis to the RAND Corporation and a nonresident fellow at the University of California Institute on Global Conflict and Cooperation, where he works in various capacities on research regarding China, technology, and national competitiveness. Jimmy was previously the vice president for global policy at the Semiconductor Industry Association (SIA), where he led the industry’s supply chain, international trade, export control, global market research, and China efforts. His work at SIA included researching Chinese industrial policy and chip industry economics, successfully securing $52 billion in funding for the CHIPS and Science Act, and navigating complex multinational export control and other national security issues. Jimmy was also the director for China policy at the Information Technology Industry Council (ITI) in Washington, DC, and prior to that spent seven years in the tech sector in China.
Elizabeth Economy is the Hargrove Senior Fellow and co-director of the Program on the US, China, and the World at the Hoover Institution. From 2021-2023, she took leave from Hoover to serve as the senior advisor for China to the US secretary of commerce. Before joining Hoover, she was the C.V. Starr Senior Fellow and director, Asia Studies at the Council on Foreign Relations. She is the author of four books on China, including most recently The World According to China (Polity, 2021), and the co-editor of two volumes. She serves on the boards of the National Endowment for Democracy and the National Committee on U.S.-China Relations. She is a member of the Aspen Strategy Group and Council on Foreign Relations and serves as a book reviewer for Foreign Affairs.
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- Jimmy Goodrich on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/jimmygoodrich/
ABOUT THE SERIES
China Considered with Elizabeth Economy is a Hoover Institution podcast series that features in-depth conversations with leading political figures, scholars, and activists from around the world. The series explores the ideas, events, and forces shaping China’s future and its global relationships, offering high-level expertise, clear-eyed analysis, and valuable insights to demystify China’s evolving dynamics and what they may mean for ordinary citizens and key decision makers across societies, governments, and the private sector.
Thursday Dec 05, 2024
Thursday Dec 05, 2024
Host Dr. Elizabeth Economy sits down with Joerg Wuttke to discuss his 30+ years doing business in China, the systemic challenges facing the Chinese economy, what the future holds for the China-EU relationship, and buying 160 million masks for then German Prime Minister Angela Merkel during the pandemic.
Wuttke provides insight into the dramatic changes in China’s business environment from his seat as BASF’s chief representative in China and head of the European Union’s Chamber of Commerce in China. He shares how he navigated the Chinese system to build one of the country’s most successful joint ventures, dealt with the endemic corruption in the Chinese bureaucracy, and steered BASF through the COVID lockdowns. He describes the current challenging environment for foreign companies: the departure of young talent, the growing competitiveness in many sectors of Chinese homegrown business, the primacy of Chinese Communist Party ideology over economic development, and the uneven playing field created by Beijing to advantage Chinese companies.
In his reflections, Wuttke describes his time working in China during the 1980s as the “best and worst of all times,” as he witnessed the stunning transformation of the country. Yet under the rule of Xi Jinping, he describes a vast surveillance state becoming increasingly unfriendly to the private sector—including both Chinese companies and multinationals. And while a thaw in relations may be unlikely, Wuttke encourages listeners to travel to China, to appreciate the culture, and to remember that the “party is not the country”.
Recorded on December 5, 2024.